Digital marketing strategist Moby Siddique

I had this lawyer and he was like, look, because he sees me on TikTok, you know, he said to me, maybe before you started that video, I don't want to shake my ass on TikTok. I'm not funny. I don't want to do that. I'm like, dude, honestly, bro, you shouldn't even focus on TikTok. You don't even have videos on your website, just videos on your website that talk about what you do, or offering utility, or offering someone how to get out of a ticket.

You know what I mean? Or how to get their license back or something. So I'm not shilling TikTok. All I'm trying to say is, whether you like TikTok or not, it's not up to you. It's changed social media every other week.

Short. If you open up YouTube, it looks like TikTok now. Instagram Reels. Welcome to the Digital Monkey show. Today we have a special guest.

He is a natural public speaker, a genius in the field of digital marketing. He's got a fierce passion and a charismatic personality that would captivate you when he speaks. He's the CEO of Red Pandas Digital and the host of Inbound Buzz podcast. We are privileged to continue our friend and humbled to have him on our podcast today. Welcome to the show, mobi.

Welcome to the Inbound Buzz podcast. Your weekly jolt. At the wrong song. What? Are you done?

Welcome, welcome, welcome, Moby, Moby Dick. Man, that intro sounds better than mine. What are you guys doing? God damn. How you guys going?

All right. No. To be honest, we were actually a bit worried that we'd have Moby here, and he. He would look at our production, be like, what the hell are you guys doing with my production? Yeah, yeah, that's right, man.

But yeah, man. How are you doing? How are you doing? Yeah. Good to be here.

Excited to be here. Honestly, we're both a little bit starstruck. I'm usually the one that's full of shit you guys are. I think I don't do that. He does, he does.

Um, but, yeah, like, we've been following your business for a little while now, so we're very excited to have you on on the podcast today, Moby. Um, so let's kick right into it. So tell us, um, tell us about your business. And who are you? What do you do?

And for the for our fans as well. Yeah. Awesome. So I am the CEO of Red Pandas Digital. It's a business that I started.

I was client side for half my career. I worked at a few agencies. I was like, stuff this shit, I could do this much better. Ate humble pie for two years, realised it was a lot harder than I thought. But fast forward six I think seven years now we have a team of about 15 people we were recently acquired, which is very exciting and we do digital marketing, marketing automation and a lot of coaching as well.

So, um, yeah, that's who I am. That's what we do. Now. You just mentioned that you were just recently acquired. This is quite new to all of us, but what what's happening there?

Yeah. So, uh, there's a guy called Marcus Sheridan who is my marketing hero. I jokingly half serious, say he's like, biggest fangirl on earth. He. So basically, the way we feel towards you.

Yeah. Don't do that shit. Yeah. Anyway, he he's, uh, like, he's awesome. Like, he had this business called River pools in 2008.

He he almost went bankrupt because of the GFC. And anyway, he developed a framework for, uh, content marketing and, you know, growing your business from a sales, sales and marketing point of view. Anyway, I've been following this guy for a really long time and became friends with him and also his business partner, Bob Ruffalo. And um, anyway, just knowing them for a really long time and then like earlier this year, um, they hit us up and they're like, you know, would you be interested in being acquired? I'm like, are you freaking kidding me?

Like, do I need to pinch myself? Like, my marketing heroes want to acquire my business? So I don't know where, like, just contacted you. Yeah. And that's the thing, though.

That's like, we're talking about this before we started recording. If you think about why, you know, like, I'm. No, I'm not that much better than anyone else out there. Like, the thing that really separates me than my peers is content. You know, I put out a lot of content.

I because that's the only thing that really differentiates you. Like if you're a video person, if you're a digital marketer, if you're an accountant, you know, in the absence of content, you know, you're almost commoditized. So how do you show trust? How do you show value? You put it out there.

So. Man, I've just been doing my thing. Like putting content out there, being really, really helpful, being top of mind. And obviously I know, like and trust these people. They know, like and trust me, when it came time for them to look for a partner in Australia, they're like, hey, Moby, um, what do you say?

Let's have that conversation. So, um, it was really, really humbling, really sort of validating, you know, for me, in terms of the work me and my, my team have been doing. But, um, but yeah, here we are. That's funny you say that. That's, um, definitely, um, a example of how content can help a lot of you a bit.

A lot of people's businesses out there, a lot of people we do, um, we try to educate them on the content side of things. They just don't believe it because they think that, hey, look, it's not going to directly lead to any lead gen or any new clients coming in, but they don't realise the credibility and the reach that you have with that content. Um, the client may not be using you then and there, but eventually down the line when they are looking for a service like yours, where do they go first to your website to they call you directly, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Absolutely. Um, now, I guess post, uh, during this alcohol, uh, acquisition process, how is this going to change your business? Yeah. So we do a lot of what I call, uh, done for you type of marketing. Like a traditional digital marketing agency.

Um, there's a lot of people in my category where you engage them will come up with the strategy, and then, based on your goals, will develop a roadmap and we'll execute. So the execution elements could include SEO, PPC content. It could include video marketing automation. And we do the work for our clients. And then like this funny thing happened.

Like I realised this was some time last year where if we actually do our job really well, clients don't need us. We make ourselves redundant. Like I had this situation many times. Had a client of ours where, uh, wimp to warrior. Now they've, uh, become ultra fitness.

When we started with them, they had 2 or 3 people, maybe four people in total. When we finished, they had three people in marketing global business, 2030 people recently acquired by News Corp. And I was trying to sell them something. It's like selling like a, like a round peg in a square hole type of thing and like, you know, just trying to, like, get them to stay with us. But again, it didn't feel right.

And then I thought to myself, man, of course, like they wanted to develop their own team. Of course they wanted to develop sales and marketing. And also that's the way you get best results. Whether I like it or not, the way you get the best results is in taking your marketing in-house. Taking it internally, like agencies are there for a purpose.

Right to a purpose. So anyway, this whole thing pivots. It's not like we're walking away from that. We're definitely pivoting from the done for you. But it's pivoting to done by you because there's a couple of things, like one, to really have that hockey stick, like growth, to have traffic, sales and leads, you need to take that shit in-house, right?

Like engaging an external agency, even like red pandas, you're going to be creating content. They're going to be like that. Agency is juggling you between ten, 20, 30, 40 other clients. You're not going to get their best time and their best, you know, like mindshare all the time. So, you know, it sounds like I'm knocking my own industry and I kind of am.

But I'm saying at some point you should try to take your sales and marketing in-house. What does that mean for for your business? Because obviously you're going to be your you're teaching all the skills and all the tips and tricks of the industry in the marketing industry, but then that kind of makes you redundant. 100%, 100%. But that's the thing.

Like if you do your job well enough anyway, you should make yourself redundant. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like, if I do my job really well and a business is able to grow and hire more people and hire marketers, it might be a natural thing that they want to do anyway, right? So the thing is to train someone and coach them to take marketing internally, to take SEO Content. Paid media sales training.

HubSpot automation which is all the things we train people on to do internally. Now that that takes that still takes a period that still takes anywhere from 12 months to 24 months based on the commitment of that client. So where because at the end of the day, the beautiful thing about that thing is the case studies, man, like the results they're going to be able to generate by themselves compared to us doing it for them is night and day, whether we like to admit it or not. Like. Yeah, I had to take some humble pie.

I had to be like, shit, this makes this could make us redundant. But that's the best way to get, like, really good case studies. And that's the way I can sell these case studies elsewhere and actually get even more clients. Okay, but not just that. You switch over to a agency, but now to an advisory in case they do have issues internally and they want to seek out for external help.

Would that be a service you provide now? So now we're done for you and done by you. So I would actually argue. So obviously we are kind of defending, you know, um, the done for you type of business. Some clients actually aren't ready for the done for you uh, done by you service yet the coaching training side.

But I would argue that that's where they should pivot eventually to anyway. But yes, essentially, for all intents and purposes, now we're doing a training coaching model where they pay us to train them, even help them hire the right people internally. But it's not just sales. And like it's not just marketing, it's sales as well. So we will have these 90 day planning sessions and we help the clients get out of their own way because yeah.

Yeah. So that's interesting that you mentioned that because one of our pitches that we, we, uh, pitch to our clients is that why would you hire someone in-house when you can afford for the same amount of price, for that same price? Sorry. You can get a whole team that's dedicated to, to to that side of the business for you. But they're not 100% dedicated.

Like he said, he has 3040 clients per account. Managers probably have. Oh no, ours like that. Well, some businesses do like us. We've tried to keep it to a point where every account manager only has five clients.

And it's tough. But but some agencies don't do that. They have ten, 20, 30, 40 clients, you know what I mean? So even our done for you when we're doing the work. It's a premium like the average retainer we sell now in that area is seven and a half eight and a half grand per month.

You know what I mean? So, um, I know what you're saying, but the thing is, like, that's just not the way it is. Like, when you look at the case studies, when they take it in-house, they're able to like, I'll give you one example. When you hire a writer, an outsourced writer, their objective is very different to someone internally. When you hire an outsourced writer, their objective is, yes, to write a good piece of content.

But to get that piece of content out as fast as possible, they'll look at the top three things that are ranking in Google. Take a bit from column ABC and then craft something, but they're not adding anything unique and new. So Google doesn't give a shit so it doesn't do the SEO job. Secondly, they're just trying to churn out the content. Whereas when you have someone internally they understand the essence of your brand.

They understand the voice of the brand. They have conversations with the peers all the time. They're incentivised differently. They want something that has traffic leads and sales and. Interesting.

Deeper piece of content. It's a piece about, um, with the, I guess, the freelancers or the contractors or the writers. Um, they just they're just trying to get paid. Right? And, you know, whereas they're.

There for. Churning out the. Articles. They're nervous. Is employee with the employee.

They're very good. The salary. They don't have to worry about that too. Just they just want to do good work. Interesting.

And they probably have a KPI to do good work, not just, you know, churn out, you know, content. Um, but this actually ties really nicely to the next question that we want to ask you is, you know, what is good content in 2022? So I think there's two components of that. The first element is like snack. So when I think about video right now, like if you listen to inbound buzz and you should, you know, subscribe and check us out.

If you do. Like this blog, I listen to it about five times every single week. That's because you're. Editing it, right? Of course.

But it's it's almost funny. It's like right now, almost every episode in the start of every episode, we talk about the news mean Tony, you talk about the news, and almost every week it's either something that TikTok has done or something Facebook or Instagram is ripping off of TikTok because like, TikTok is like just set the scene and the pace for what content is. And I've been talking about snack content for years before TikTok. But TikTok is like the ultimate piece of content, where it's just about the content, it's bite sized, you get something within 15 and 60s. So in terms of what really good content is, I would say one, that it's snack able, right?

It's quick, it's fast, and video is great for that. Absolutely. And the second thing is and this is really important is scalable. So one of the biggest mistakes I see businesses make I was talking to a friend of mine today and he started a podcast and he's like, it's going to take me this amount of time. I've got to edit this.

And I'm like, dude, if you can't do anything where you can do it sustainably and at a scalable level, then don't do it because you're going to give up. You're going to get busy, you're going to have tenders, you're going to have issues with employees. So for example, like the way we do the podcast right is, you know, you guys come in, you shoot our videos. Is it. A.

Visual? Oh. Oh I just can't go there yet, man. Yeah. Like goddamn I'm trying to go real discreet.

You guys like Schilling? Schilling to level ten. But anyway, like you guys. So we have a set time every week where you guys come in. We have me and Tony spend half an hour, sometimes.

Sometimes even less, to prepare for the show. Look at some news, think of a featured topic to talk about. And then, because I'm an expert in my field, that stuff is in my head all the time. So we come, we have that conversation, and then we're done for the week. And you guys go, and you guys cut it up.

And I think we create 56 pieces of content from in one month. And then we just then I have Vas like then I actually have Vas. They will put it on TikTok, LinkedIn, Instagram, um, you know, even our content articles. I've got a full time content writer. He looks at what's working on the the snack side, and then that is his feeder to come up with article idea.

It's like almost market research for kids. That it's well oiled machine. So being very strategic on the content that you put out. Because one of the things that I've been I talked to one of my friends the other day, and he's saying that the thing that he thinks about TikTok is that, yes, it's fast content, but he finds that he's just flicking through them, watching it, and then it's out of his mind like the next day. So it's it's really good.

The way you've done it is being strategic about it and put it, keep it, keeping it at the forefront of people's minds. I mean, I just want to say one disclaimer on TikTok, because I do think that I had this lawyer and he was like, look, Mo, because he sees me on TikTok. So he thought I was going to say to him, Moby, you know, he said to me, maybe before you start about video, I don't want to shake my ass on TikTok. I'm not funny. I don't want to do that.

I'm like, dude, honestly, bro, you shouldn't even focus on TikTok. You don't even have videos on your website, just videos on your website that talk about what you do, or offering utility, or offering someone how to get out of a ticket. You know what I mean? Or how to get their license back or something. So I'm not shilling TikTok.

All I'm trying to say is whether you like TikTok or not. It's not up to you. It's changed social media every other week. Shorts. If you open up YouTube, it looks like TikTok.

Now, Instagram reels, it looks like TikTok now. Even YouTubers aren't in on it now. It's changed the consumption behaviour, how we consume social media. Everyone's moving there, so whether you like it or not, it's too bad. It's going to catch up with you and one day you're going to be like, damn, I wish I got onto TikTok, just like you're saying now.

Damn, I wish I got into Facebook Instagram when it was worth it. Yeah, true, it isn't in its infancy at the moment. Now, another question in regards to content. Um, maybe. Do you ever get a bit butthurt when your content doesn't go viral or doesn't like what you what you've put a lot of time into?

You think, oh yeah, everyone's gonna love this, but then it doesn't hit you. Just sit there and look at the stats every day, that sort of thing. I think, man, I think this stops a lot of people. This stops a lot of people in their tracks, and their egos are like, they just need to get their egos out of the way, to be honest. Like, I'll put out this is the thing.

Like when I first started TikTok, I was putting out four pieces a day because, like Gary Vee said, do four pieces. I'm like, all right, stuff this guy. I'm gonna give it a shot, I reckon is full of shit, but I'm gonna try. And I had a keynote coming up, so I'm like, okay, at least I can share my failure that it didn't work and it freaking worked. Like some of that stuff wouldn't hit and some of the stuff would hit.

And the thing is, you don't know what's going to hit. You actually don't know what's going to go viral. You know what I mean? So the thing is, like I will say, quantity breeds the quality. So you have to have that quantity.

It just is what it is. You know, like people will not put stuff out because they think it's not perfect, but what they don't realise, it's never going to get good because they've got to put stuff out. And man, some of my stuff still gets like, like nothing likes or views or whatever. And some of the stuff will get 500,000, a million views. But do you know what I'm trying to say?

Like when stuff pops off and I gave some advice to someone recently, they said to me, man, maybe like my thing hit, you know, 200,000 people. And I'm like, look, the piece of advice I'd give for you now is don't let that get to your head, because the next thing you're going to put out, you can get 200 views and then you're going to stop like, okay, awesome. Let me learn from that. Let me sort of figure out what's kind of working and keep going with my content, because some of your shit's not going to hit, and that's okay. Do you know what's funny?

We've actually got a client that does pretty well on, um, on his social media. So he's I think TikTok is is fast approaching 4000 or something over a span of couple of weeks. And he every now and again we get a piece of content that that goes up to, uh, you know, six figures in terms of views, but with all the, uh, the traction that he's building, he's not doing anything with it. He's he's just kind of like thinking that when he started doing content with us that he'd get leads left, right and centre. But I keep telling him that's not the case.

Right. You're building reputation. You're building brands through your social media platforms. Um, but look, he just doesn't believe in, you know, because he's not generating, um, direct income. What would you say to people like that?

Yeah, well, that's actually one of the things I wanted to ask as well, because, like you, your, um, the fact that you got acquired by buy this by this company over the US is the is from your content. So how how would you approach that conversation with your clients. So there's a couple of things like, you know firstly I like I said I'm not going to create anything if I can't scale it. But also I'm not going to create anything if I can't transpose it or use it in another medium. Right.

Like if I was just going to do like if we were just going to engage you guys to do our podcast and to put it on TikTok, it's not worth it because it might not hit like, that's the thing. Like, I'm I don't disagree with that because that's an issue a lot of people have. I don't disagree with the fact that if you put stuff out, you know, just on TikTok, no one's going to make a purchasing decision. That's why you have to have other things as well, right? Like, that stuff helps.

If I'm creating TikToks, it's going to help our newsletter that we sent out. That's our owned media. It's going to help the articles that we put up. There's going to be a long form piece of content. It's going to be content that my sales guy could literally send to someone when he's having a conversation.

So it's that as well. But also you got to realise that there people are at different stages of the buyer's journey, and you guys were touching at this before, so someone who's bottom of funnel ready to buy, they're going to go on my website. They need to see all the questions, all the answers to the questions that they have. And if they don't have the answers to the questions and like we know this from, they ask you answer, which is something my business partner impact and us and our coach people on is writing things like, you know, the cost of something, the something versus something else. Reviews the problems of your offering.

You know, um, you know, the, you know, those types of content. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, there's horses for courses. And you have to understand, there's different content for different stages of the buying cycle. Those people that consume me on TikTok, they might now connect with me on LinkedIn, they might join our database. And like you guys were saying before, when they're ready to buy who they're going to go to, you know, like, why wouldn't you put stuff out there like it's free, you know?

If you exclude the production value. But it's it doesn't cost you anything. That's the thing people don't realise before we have this professional level podcast for four years, I just bought a $90 mic and I sat at my desk and I did podcasting. That didn't cost me anything but time. But the reason why I did it this way.

I don't understand why more CEOs and business owners don't put more content on LinkedIn like it's free. I think it's a it's the, uh, idea, general, uh, generation piece that they struggle with. Because obviously, like you said, it is a lot of time, like, uh, as you may know, content generation, from the idea to shooting to editing, it takes it's a literally a full time job because there's so much to do. Right. But I think that's what kind of deters them from doing that, to be honest.

And that's why I said before, it's hackable and scalable. Yeah. Like if you're not going to be like, I mean, I, I broke my ass doing four TikToks a day like that was for a really tight period because I was doing an experiment. But I was getting home at 9:00. I get it, but now I do.

Like now I put three pieces of content out. I put three posts on LinkedIn per week. I tried two per day. I tried one per day, but three pieces. I can manage that.

It only takes me 20 minutes. So when this is the thing, there's more ideas than you realise. You might be talking to a client, someone might ask a question. I just pull out my OneNote. I'm like, well, that's a great piece of content.

So I'm like every day in my day to day, the difference between me and someone says they don't have time is I'm just jotting down those ideas. But then I batch when I when I do my content. So then when I sit down at 7:00, you know, 7 a.m. in the morning before I start my day, I'm like, all right, cool. What do I have on my OneNote?

All right. What is SEO all right. Amazing. All right. Let me do a quick piece on that.

It takes me half an hour. Do you know what I mean? So it's like a habit and routine. And that's the other thing. People don't realise the quantity will build that routine.

You can't just do shit here and there and think it's going to work. You haven't done it properly. Like you always say, it's a muscle, right? Yeah, yeah. Speaking of muscles.

Um, I'm interested to find. I'm sorry. Where the hell does that come from? We're kind of in sync there. Because I saw a habit I heard miss it.

So I'm like, this is time. Um, so. I'm really interested because, like, when again, coming back to my introduction, like, when I listen to you speak, you're very captivating in a way that you're able to create a story out of, um, any topic and be able to deliver it very succinctly. I want to know you delivered a piece about, like, how communication is a muscle and also how good you are in terms of like, uh, public speaking. So can you tell me a bit about how you approach communications and like, what does it mean for you and also in your business?

So I actually I think I'm far from being an expert, but, you know, it's nice to me. You're pretty good, man. Maybe it's maybe maybe it's relative. But the point I do want to say is, um, I'm actually, like, really slow to pick up on a skill. Like, it actually takes me time to pick up on a skill.

But once I get it, I get it right. It is a muscle, right? Just like anything becomes trained. So, you know, like when I first started my business, I realised that I need to be a good communicator, right? So it's not necessarily about being a speaker or whatever.

I need to be a good communicator. So, you know, if you're at work and any time you have an opportunity to present, you take that. You know, people ask me to emcee weddings now, and I've been told by like, you know, deejays who because I'm often in the DJ booth next to them, they're like, man, you're better than the average MC. It's not that I'm an MC, it's I'm a communicator. So like that, working that muscle of being a communicator, you know, the podcasting that I did for 4 or 5 years and we're still doing now, that helps me be a good speaker.

The speaker that I am, that helps me be a good like, if I'm in a boardroom in presenting to high net worth individuals, makes me confident, right? Even like I you know, I recently did, you know, a comedy stand up, you know, like you did. Yeah, I did, uh, like a I think it's like comedy in the raw. And I did like this five, five week course. And then I had a I had to do a five minute set.

Now, to the untrained eye, it's like this guy's just, you know, just wants to be a comedian. No, no, it's actually I don't want to be a freaking comedian. I'm trying to work my communication muscle, because if I can make a bunch of people like, it's easy to make a friends laugh, it's easy to make, like, talk about something that, you know, in front of people that you know, in your peers. But if I could make a bunch of people who don't know me from bar soap laugh, for them to laugh, they have to know me, like me. Trust me when I'm in sales calls or when I'm meeting people, it's the exact same thing.

They have to know me, like me, trust me. So that's the that's the muscle. That. And for me, comedy was, uh, a very thing. I'm not.

I'm not uncomfortable speaking in front of 500, 600 people. It doesn't bother me anymore. But comedy did. So like training that is going to make you a better business owner, a better leader, a better entrepreneur. So that's it.

People see that, but they don't realise that I'm working on that skill all the time, and it's actually I don't believe it's a natural thing. It might appear natural now, but I've been working on this shit for a very long time, you know? So important question. How did it go? Did you call us?

Yeah, absolutely. Are you. Sure you didn't. Bomb at all? Absolutely.

I don't know if you guys have shown on it, so I'm happy to share that. Really? Like I'm done with it because the thing about comedians is, you know, there's a little bit of, like, I don't love myself that much. Like, I do like attention, so that helps me. You know, video and being like, that's that's my style.

Like I'm an extrovert. So it helps me like videos and, you know, speaking it suits my style. But I don't love myself that much or I'm just going to go and make people laugh. What I enjoy more than the attention is actually helping people. Yeah.

So for me to just be a comedian, just to get lost is just stroking my ego. That doesn't do anything for me. It's like bucket list, tick, done. But it's it's a means to the end. Yeah.

I do think that the comedic side, though. Sorry, sorry I cut you off there for. That's okay. Um, I do feel that the comedic side does really help with. Um.

I absolutely agree with you in the sense that it does help with business. Like, do you able to make someone laugh? You're more approachable and you're more, um, I guess they're more willing to do business with you, especially in sales calls. Right? Like how you how you, uh, how they perceive you is, is how most of the time is if they don't do business with you kind of thing.

100%. Yeah. I'm very intrigued because both of you guys are the way I see you guys. You guys are both extroverts. The way that you guys speaks is.

And it's very natural. It flows really well. I classify myself more as an introvert, so it is a little bit harder for me to approach people. So do you have any advice for for people like me? So there's two elements I think there's one like for example, you know, I mean especially for marketers, but you know, people are trying to run a business.

CEOs I actually think every CEO should actually have a personal brand. I actually think that's so vitally important. But you do it that's like that is linked to your personality and style. So, for example, you know, if maybe you write instead, you know what I mean? And it depends on like.

I was speaking to some mentees because I'm a mentor for a bunch of university students, and someone like one of the guys said, well, you know, I want to get into UX and design. And he was he was quite shy. I'm like, well, you can just create UX and design and have portfolios and just develop that. That's still content. You know, photos are still content.

Like people on TikTok. There's a bunch there's heat loads of 1 million plus follower accounts that you never even see their face. So it's not necessarily that, but the caveat the thing I will say is, if you're in business, you have to develop some communication skills. Now, it might be harder for you, but you still got to do it. It is what it is.

I've met so many people like one of my like one of, I guess my, my peers, Chris Dupree at Impact. He's my like he coaches me and my team. And he actually when you see him, he's very out there. He's very direct. He's very confident.

You noticed that within 10s. But he says he goes out a party. He goes, I'm the guy in the corner like I'm there. Quiet. I might have one friend.

I'm actually quite subdued and it's very surprising to people. So he just switches it on? Yeah, he switches it on now. It might take him more energy. He might be more tired at the end of the day compared to someone like me who naturally is like that.

But he's had to work that. Do you know what I mean? So there's elements I want. I will say you do things that are conducive to your style. You do it in your own personality.

No one's asking you to be like me, or I move my hands around. I'm crazy. I speak a million miles an hour. But you have to be confident and portray yourself. So even if you speak slowly and you're a bit more subdued, you still need to work that muscle of, you know, like when you notice me talk in the office, people crack the shits when I'm on a call because, like, maybe you're so loud, like, I can't have a call next to you and I can't even help it.

It's because over the years, I've developed my stage voice. Yeah. So when I talk, you know, my my chest a little bit louder, I take more presence. My. As soon as you guys notice, when you turn the camera on me, I'm actually a little bit louder and I can't even help it.

It's just something I've trained. So do what I'm trying to say. So even if you are quiet, subdued, or you're introvert meant introvert, some introverts make some of the best leaders on earth because, like, unlike people like me, we just talk. They're actually good listeners, you know what I mean? Like some of the tech company CEOs, they have introverts, but they've still developed this muscle to communicate.

They just do it in their own personality. I think I'm thinking of Elon Musk. He's a terrible. Communicator. By the way.

Well, like yeah, I totally agree with you there. But do you think, um, it'd be a good, um, let's call it training session to get your team to go take some comedy lessons. 100%. But they will scare. No one wants to do it.

Really? I would love to do it. No, but. I think it's horses for courses, right? Because I said to you guys before that, speaking in front of, like, you know, the reason why I say yes to MCs because like now firstly, like Pakistani is like they don't want to pay money, right?

They're like, oh, maybe he can I can say that shit. Right? Maybe he can talk. You know, he's pretty confident we'll save some money, but also not any. That too.

You know, he makes it fun and whatever. We'll get him to do it. So, like, I don't ever charge for it. You know, maybe I should start charging, but like, I did that because that what used to be a challenge for me because I'm like, when you're emceeing a wedding, the bride's coming to you. The caterers are like, dude, like, speed up the program and you're dealing with a hundred things.

So it was a challenge, so I did it. But that shit's easy for me now. So the next frontier for me was, oh, my God, to go and make people laugh. That don't know me. That's really nerve wracking.

So you went looking for something harder to to challenge yourself 100%. Raise it. 100%. So that so back to your your questions around, you know, should I get the team I get it'd be fun. But for them they're probably more nervous.

Some of them like like at different levels, different people. Right. Some of them are really confident speaking already. We have we have two podcasters. You guys know two of our female leaders in our business.

They have a podcast called Market the Marketing Mentor. So they're pretty confident. Uh, but different levels. Right. So for them, if it's the objective of working your communication skill, I wouldn't say go to comedy school.

For me, like I, you know, people ask me, would I go Toastmasters? I'm like, well, my whole career has been Toastmasters, so I wouldn't. But other people I would, you know what I mean? I'd say go to Toastmasters or do a whole bunch of other stuff and then maybe do comedy. And this interesting is just flowing different levels, different levels.

Now next segment. So that's true. The next segment we want to talk about is, uh, is a piece that you and I actually spoke about, um, before, uh, maybe in from my point of view with red pandas, I feel like you've got it made right. You've got your dream business. You've you grew that to seven figure business.

Um, can you tell us at this stage of your life, do you still have any struggles? I don't think that ever goes away. I think you just get better at dealing with them. So, like, people see my content and they see, like, I've got 30,000 followers on TikTok. I'm putting stuff out of wasting.

Very confident. I've got a team of 15 people I've got acquired. They're like. Like you said, this guy's got a maid. But I'll tell you every week I have an imposter syndrome moment.

Wow. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I always have these moments where I'm like, man, you know, like, can I do this? Like, I have these moments of doubt. It happens all the freaking time.

And I don't think it actually changes. I think what happens is you just get better with dealing at it and you have to formulate your own strategy. So for me, when I have imposter syndrome or doubt, I just try to redirect that energy. Like where the where the focus goes, the energy flows type of thing. So I love that one.

I, I think maybe has been reading my books of quotes, to be honest. There's still a running joke right now. Right? Right. Man, I'm a book of quotes.

Like the the the the point is like, I will then redirect that energy to what's in my circle of control, right? I can't control the market. I can't control my competitors. I can't I can't control if my employees are leaving or, you know, or, or our some of our clients are being difficult. I can't control those things.

But what can? What can I control? I can control waking up early in the morning, I can control. Working out I can control, you know, working on my business, putting content out there. Do you know what I mean?

So I just redirect that nervous energy into just getting busy, and that's what works for me. Getting busy? If you're nervous, I like that. I like that one. So, um, I guess one of the questions I have for you in this respect is what does success for you for you look like at that level, at your level?

Sorry. I think, uh, really it's balance. And one of the things that I've been dealing with is I've, I've always been really hard on myself, like, I'm never satisfied. And I think that's good. Like, a strength can be a weakness, and a weakness can be a strength.

Right? The fact that I'm never satisfied means, like, I always keep myself busy. I'm always trying to grow myself. I'm always trying to be a baby in learning something new. But the flip side of that coin is I never appreciate my success.

Like when I started my business on the cool people congratulating me, I'm like, no, no, no. Like I'm not. I'm not happy yet. So I never really appreciated that. So every so often you've got to stop and like, you know what?

Enjoy the journey. I was talking to you guys about this once after a show that I think someone was talking about. Like, when I get to this level, I'll be happy and I'll be like, you know what? You actually won't. You actually weren't like, if you once you get.

Once I get to seven figures, I'll be happy. Once I have a team. Once I have an office. Yeah. Be proud of that moment.

But I promise you, you're going to feel the same if you don't enjoy the journey. Just be like, man, I'm so grateful I'm on this journey that I get to, like, even try. Like, if you haven't started your business, be grateful that you're on the journey to like, you're making a business plan. You're learning things, right. If you've just started working for yourself.

Man, I'm only one person person business. But at least I'm on the journey. Because I promise you, if you don't do that, you're never going to enjoy the levels of success. And whether that's like a seven figure business owner like me or a ten figure, 11 figure, you're still going to feel freaking miserable. So in terms of what success is to wrap that up, for me, it's like trying to pursue balance.

Balance across my business, my family, my health, my spirituality. So that for me is the pursuit of attaining those things and achieving those things rather than a destination. Are you getting goose bumps? I'm getting goose bumps. Holy crap.

Wow, that was powerful. It's just cold in here. No no no no no no. I really like that. Thank you for that.

That was. Great. I had a moment today. Actually, I was, um. I just came around the toilet just back there.

Okay. Is that what you get? Is that where you get your moment? All right. Okay.

Tell us about your toilet moment. I'm sure everyone. Would love to hear about your. Toilet moment. I was I literally had a moment, and then I was telling Jerome, I'm like, man, just once you just, um, take a step back and see where we've we've we've come what we've come from and where we are now in the last couple of months, eight months or so when we first started working together.

It's crazy to think that all these pieces start to just kind of fall into place. And you're like, when you first started, you didn't really see that growth or where you wanted to go. Um, but when you take a step back and just reflect, like, man, I'm quite happy at the moment. You know. Matthew McConaughey talks about he had like probably the best Oscar speech of all time, and he talks about the fact that his hero is him five years from now.

Right. And then when he gets to five years, his hero is then the next version of him five years from now. So with you guys, like, think about like you today, five years ago, if you could meet yourself five years ago and say, hey, look, dude, we'd be doing this and this, that person wouldn't believe you. That's true. And that's what makes yourself really proud about yourself.

But you're always just in competition with the future version of yourself. Maybe you're my hero. Stop it, stop it! He's blushing. The good.

Thing is, you guys can't see me blushing, so. I. Am. I remember I distinctly remember the first job I've ever had as a as a videographer. Remember that time when you said, just do it?

I was at your house. I was living at your house, and the first ever job was just like a $70 drone job. And here we are now. I was just reading the the the words in your t shirt, bro. I don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, no. Don't mess messing with. Yeah. All right. Next topic.

Um. Mental health. Uh, this is, uh, this is definitely something that's, uh, very personal to me because it's something that I've recently started opening up about. Um, mental health is something I've been dealing with for on and off for the last couple of years and doing your shows. I've noticed that in your office, psych safety is something that you guys have been, uh, like, talking about a lot.

And in the last podcast with James, he delved very deep in, in in mental health. Can you tell me about, um, what your what your thoughts are on it. So firstly, the idea of psychological safety is you have the ability to express yourself and be yourself in every definition of that word. So if what we try to do at Red Panda is have a very psych safe environment. So that means you're comfortable, like, man, you know, if you make if you're quirky, make weird jokes.

You're not shy to make those quirky jokes, if you like, have, like, your hair purple. You don't like. You're not shy to be yourself and express yourself. Why? Well, because then at the same time, you're not shy to say, hey, you know what?

Maybe, like, you know what you did in that meeting? That wasn't cool, man. That client got upset. It's like, oh, damn. Thank you for telling me.

Like, because we have blind spots. You know, so people, when they have, like, safety, they're better at their roles. They're themselves. They're more comfortable, they're more confident. They're better happy human individuals.

Right. So that's that's the idea of like, safety. Um, what was the other part of your question? Uh, the other one is, um, regarding seeing a therapist and being open about the troubles that you're going through. Like, I got to be really careful here.

What I say, because I feel like there needs to be a little bit of over corrective action. So we spoke about mental health and, you know, like, I'm an ambassador for LinkedIn Australia. So I recently did a piece on are you okay? You know, and the idea of like, you know, you don't need qualifications. They're running this campaign and just checking in with someone, right?

The thing is, like, you know, we're we're in this society now where, like, you're supposed to just accept everything about yourself. Like, you know, if you're fat, great. You're fat. Right? If you're upset, that's the way you are.

You know, you're you're a depressive person. That's who you are. But, like, know if you're fat and you're not happy, like, work out, man. You know what I mean? Like, do something about yourself.

Maybe you shouldn't be happy with that. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like, if there's nothing wrong, like we glamorise being yourself, and that's important. I'm not saying that's not important, but also like, what about bettering yourself? It's not about being happy in the state you are at right now.

Maybe you lack some education. Maybe you're not as smart as you want to be. And smart is just a factor of learning and reading and that type of stuff. Maybe you don't have the body type that you know that you currently have right now. Yeah.

Accept yourself. So you're not depressed. But like, whatever happened to self-improvement and working hard and getting better? You know what I mean? So like for me.

So of course, like, you know, you see, Red Panda, we talk about psych safety. It's no joke. We're really so defensive about people being happy and having good mental health. But at the same time, I would say do not use mental health as a crutch. Right.

I love the idea of speaking to people, the idea of speaking to a therapist or a psychologist, whatever. I love that idea. But what I would say is like, I'm sure not all of them are the same. They're incentivised like by you coming back. And sometimes at some point you got you got to ask yourself, okay, have I done what I needed to do?

And I spoke about my problems. I've done that. Now how do I get into solutions mode? Because the answer isn't just talking about your problems all the time and reminding yourself how depressed you are and what a loser you are, and and all the things you blame your parents for. At some point, you got to hustle your ass into action.

You know what I mean? So my view on that, if I was going to summarise that, it's like it's important. We need to double down on that. We need to explore that, unpack that and then understand balance that with okay, what's my plan to get out of that? You know what I mean?

Not just being these depressive states. So I feel like there needs to be a little bit of corrective action because everyone's like, oh, I'm this way and this is who I am. This is the way I'm going to be. And the way to solve my problems is just always talking about it to a level. At some point, you got to kick your ass into gear.

In saying that. Have you ever gone through any mental, um, I guess health concerns that you've had of your own in business in general or in your personal life? 100%. Like we're human. You know what I mean?

Like, you know, earlier this year, you know, my wife had a miscarriage at five months where she miscarried at home. The baby came out at home when she was on the toilet. And I hate to get descriptive and illustrative, but, like, that shit was freaking depressing, man. You know what I mean? Like, I had to deal with that.

I took 2 or 3 days off and then I had to be a leader and like, still put on a brave face and talk to clients. And I had to like, um, you know, you're dealing with people pitying you. You don't want them to pity you like hell. Yeah, man. Like we all go through these bouts and spurts, right?

And I also recognise as well, like me and my wife, we had to deal with that differently. You know, she needed more time. I sort of like I'm someone who I unpack my feelings. I, you know, address them, and then I need to have a plan. Like I need to have some sort of.

The way I deal with stuff is I just get on with it, you know? So I understand, too. And I don't want to seem insensitive, insensitive and whatever. Insensitive rather. But that's the way I deal with stuff, you know?

So of course, you know, we have these depressive bouts, all these moments, but I think it's important to unpack it, understand it, maybe even feel more uncomfortable by unpacking it and then figuring out, okay, what do I need to do to get out of that? Hmm. You know, what. Does unpacking it look like? Like what do you what do you mean by that?

So if I can give you an example, um, because this happened to me and I was recently speaking to someone about this as well. Like, in one breath, they were like, you know, they were telling me about how they're not happy at work. And then in one conversation, they're like, okay, you know, I'm going to be a marketing manager and focus on this. And then like two minutes later, they're like, I'm going to start my own business. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down a second.

Like, what do you actually want to do? Like, do you want to start your own business? Do you want to be a marketing manager? What are you trying to do? And like, they were uneasy, unhappy, you know, in their business, like, as an employee somewhere and in their life.

And the the work was dragging them down. So I'm like, no, unpack that. Think about that. What do you actually want to do? Because you can't do everything.

And when I said that, when I, when I had that moment with them, I could see like they had this uncomfortable feeling. I'm like, you know, that uncomfortable feeling you have that's good. Because like, the, you know, that precedes the the tension precedes a breakthrough. So when you're feeling uncomfortable, double down, unpack that and understand like why do you feel like, yeah, you do need to talk to people sometimes a friend, a confidant or a psychologist, or to unpack why you feel that and double down into that tension. Don't just try to drown it with alcohol or technology, or just scrolling on your feed because you're trying to like or Netflix.

You're trying to drown out those fees. Unpack that and understand that the attention will precede the breakthrough that you need to have. That's huge. Like the way I picture it at the moment, in my my mind's eye that we call it is like, uh, a ball of linen. You're just pulling two strings apart, and you just have to really spend the time to sit there and just pull it until it unpacks and you kind of figure it out.

What's in the middle? But, uh, that's a really interesting term, unpacking your main issues with unpacking. So that would mean talking to a therapist, for example. Would that classify as unpacking as well. Like they're talking.

Yeah, 100% like you know I again like I, I'm a big believer of that. But I'm also a believer like if I was going to end up. But also this is me personally. Right. So I can't talk to other people.

And then some people need more help. But my opinion is if you did need to speak to a professional that I would like before you walk in, put it in your mind that I'm going to have like four sessions, right? Or I'm going to have like I'm going to make it quite fun. Maybe not for sessions. I'm going to give it to go for three months.

Whatever it is now, you may get into that situation. Realise now. By the way, guys, I'm not talking about people who had unspeakable things done to them, like raped as a kid and like lost a parent. Like really bad shit. Evil shit.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the average person. Right? I'd go into there with a level of finiteness and understanding that I'm going to keep this quiet. I'm going to go in there no matter how long it takes.

But I'm there to have a problem solving approach so I can solve my problems myself. I, I don't. That's a that's an interesting way to look. At it. You might not have the tools yet.

Right. So you go in there, you go with the empty tool, you know, like a, like a tool belt, understanding what tools you need. And then walk away from your therapist and figure it out yourself because you need to figure that shit out yourself. You know, you can't, like, have a therapist as a crutch either. So I love the idea.

And I actually, you know, would like to speak to someone one day if I needed to, I would, but just to understand the tools that I need so I could sort that out myself. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. That was deep.

That was deep. Very, very insightful. Like, the way I see it is literally physio for your mind. Yeah, exactly. Physio.

Yeah, yeah. Physio for your mind. I'll go away when you do it. And then your body is good and they tell you to not do that anymore. You don't.

And you're good. But yeah. Anyways, that's how I see things. Yeah. Um.

Yeah. We're coming close to the end of the episode. Have you got any more questions for our bigger star? Wow. Even your producer is laughing.

You guys are, like, biggest suck ups. Like, you know. He's our client. We have to. Suck.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like that. She doesn't work on me. Can you sign my chest later?

Okay. Your face. I love it. I just when I feel like I'm gonna sweat, I just say nothing. I could see it in your eyes.

That's why. That's why. That's the most silent movie in this episode. It's quiet again. I love it So.

Um, do you have. Any final words. That you'd like to share? Um, uh, plug or anything like that? No.

Not really. Um, I think I, you know, I think really understanding like your why in life. Like why you do something. I think that's the most important thing. You know, like, if I can give example for me, I want to be able to be an example, to be a role model, to give back to people.

So, you know, a lot of people very, very impatient with that. You know, speaking, maybe it's because I spoke to university graduates recently, but like, they want to solve the world, right? They want to do 2 or 3 things on the side. They want to help this charity, that charity things. When you're a young person, people will take advantage of you.

They'll take all your time. So you can't say yes to everything. So I think being successful is like one understanding your why, pursuing that, and also the ability to say no to things because there's an opportunity cost with anything. And you know, doing a 10,000 hours, you know, the whole 10,000 hour rule it takes to be successful doing that, doubling down, being patient and just enjoying the balance, right? Like pursuing balance and enjoying the journey.

All right. That was, um, quite an episode, wasn't it? Full? Um, maybe I just wanted to, uh, thank you for your for you coming down all the way to our studio to do this episode with us. It was definitely, definitely a heavy, heavy hitting episode, and we're pretty sure we'll have you back on to the episode.

So, guys, if you guys enjoyed it, please leave us a comment in the section below. Um, like and subscribe. And, um, you can find this episode on Spotify, on YouTube, uh, at ep five of, uh, Digital Monkey Show. And. Yeah.

Thanks. Okay. Yeah, well. Cue music. Thank you so much, man.