The videographer who got Phuong into the game

That first week I just finished. I just finished my full time job. Look at my calendar. I got nothing in there, right? Well, there's no emails coming through.

And I was like. That was your first video. First ever YouTube video. Got 100,000 views in like a few months. And Joe just got crazy opportunity out of it.

And I was like, bro, that's amazing. But the most important moral of the story is that he was trying to do something positive. The second aha moment was my colleague at the full time job I was with said to me, you will never leave this place. Oh yeah, we need some alcohol. Uh, I got my brother Tak from Zuko created this man.

This man is one of the guys that actually got me into the game. So he's got a lot of wisdom to share about videography and a bit of marketing and generally how to run a run a business. So attack man, welcome to the show. Thank you bro. It's been a long time coming.

Oh we've been trying to get this podcast going haven't we. Yeah. Disclaimer we did do one. Yeah yeah. No.

now, the thing with that, with that particular one is that I think I forgot to record the audio or I'd rather have, like, I thought I saved the audio, but I actually didn't. But anyways, um, tell me a bit about yourself, man. Like a bit about your journey where Zoku came from. Like. And how did we actually meet?

Hmm. How much time do we have? We have a lot of time. Yeah. Well, I come from a digital marketing, actually.

Graphic design background. Then I went into digital marketing. Then I ended up becoming a videographer. But they all sort of link with one another. So how did we meet?

Well, we met through my wife, as you well know. You guys went to uni together. That's right. And then as I got into videography, uh, on Facebook, you put up a post saying, do I have any videographer friends on here? Mhm.

And then I connected with you through that and the rest is history. No. It was an interesting time because I saw a story that you did for, uh, from the like for the former mayor of Blacktown. And I saw that like, wow, this guy's work is amazing. I really want to, like, have a chat with him.

But the thing is, we haven't seen each other for ten years at the time, and it was like one of those, uh, I would say fateful reunions. And it seems in my business journey, it's sort of, uh, happened. It happened a lot, like when you sort of put the intention out there, things just start happening back at you kind of thing. So you see, you meet people or you start doing things and you go to some events and things just snowball from there. Has it been the same with you?

100%. Like, I feel I'm a very spiritual person, especially when it comes to like everything happens for a reason. You meet the right people at the right time. And after that conversation we had and we said, hey, come over to mine. Yeah.

And I don't know if you recall, but we saw that our yeah, we were chilling in the back and then we looked up and just on the TV antenna there was this massive owl I remember, and I was like, bro. Like, owls are like a big omen thing as well. Like positive. And I've never seen an owl there to this day. It's been five years since I've lived in the house.

Mhm. And that hour was just like a special moment. And from there we both grew, as you would agree. Yeah. Massive expansion.

Oh I can't even say the word. We grew like to another level in our own different ways. And we've gone through so much since that time. We saw that hour. So yeah, man, it's been very special.

Well, let's talk about that for a second. Like, spirituality is something I'm sort of discovering. It's not a big thing for me yet. And for you, it's been always been a massive thing. What does it mean for you as an entrepreneur, as a creative entrepreneur, to have that spirit of spirituality and that belief in yourself, others, and where things would take you?

Yeah, I mean, I like the same spiritual, but I did say I'm spiritual, but I'm still obviously it's one of those things you just never stop being more spiritual, if that makes sense. Became a Christian last year, but I'm far from like the ideal Christian person I want to be. And it can be spiritual in many different ways. I'm trying to find more, uh, you know, get my faith a lot stronger than what it should be and be a proud Christian. So I don't really tell people that I'm a Christian because I'm not a proud Christian.

Yet. I think it's important because, you know, just through everyone's journeys, like what you've been through. And, you know, my wife's a Christian. She comes from a very strong Christian family. Yeah.

And that's why, you know, it opened my eyes to into that world. And now that I have kids and I see all the benefits of, you know, um, going to church and learning and all of that sort of stuff. But I'm not here to preach. But I think it's just if you want to become a good person, I think it's important to have, like, you know, strong values in faith and that will help you get to become like, you know, a better person and that will ultimately help with business as well. Man, that's we're going deep already.

Like I'm actually thinking about, you know, uh, you know, here's the thing. How's this for interconnectivity? Now, you helped me get into the game. You basically got me one of my first few staff here. So Jerome, the reason why I met Jerome is because I met you.

So that's kind of cool. Yeah, I started when I was checking out. Yeah, I tend to do that. Don't know, I. Sort of bring them into my circle.

Um, but, like, my, the point I'm trying to make here is just that, uh, once you. And this is about a bit of a spirituality talk for anyone who's starting a business or anything like that, just setting that intention of where you want to go. And eventually just pieces start falling into place. Uh, connections start to happen. You're really sort of vibing with, uh, with it in a way that, you know, your, the conversations that you have, the, the people that you meet, the places that you go to and the information you try to consume.

It all helps you to get towards, uh, your goal as a, as a business owner. And that's what I think. Mm. 100% I think like me going into my own business had nothing to do with faith or spirituality. It just it was a time, you know, and, you know, you've you've been running your own business outside of video for many years, so you're already accustomed to doing that.

But for someone like me who's worked corporate his whole life, and I've had many side businesses and side hustles ever since I was young, but going full time into my own business was very new to me. So that was not nothing to do with spirituality. But in my own belief, it was mindset. I was always ready to do it, but I didn't have the balls big enough to actually go, you know what? I'm ready to actually go and do this now.

A lot of my side businesses weren't making the money that I needed to earn to be able to go, hey, I'm ready to like, go off and do this side business. Whereas video even involves doing it full time for a business. I was getting a lot of opportunities outside of it to to make some money. And then I got I felt confident within my own skills. I was, you know, doing video for about six years before I decided to go full time into it myself.

But during those six years, like made a lot of connections within the industry. I was confident in my skills and then I was like, okay, now I'm ready to sort of take it to the next level. But there was many different elements that led me to doing it. I'm going to talk about your videos in a moment, but before we get there, you've made the jump. What does it take for someone to.

And I know my answer for this as well. But what does it take for someone to to be like going from the 9 to 5 to becoming a business owner? What is that spark? When is the right time? And I feel like as a new business owner or people who are actually looking to do more high side hustle or side hustle that would replace their income eventually.

What's that spark? Yeah, it's a really good question for me. There's a number of things. It's not for everyone. I know that for a fact.

So I had the perfect job. Debatably. I had the perfect job. I could have died at that job, paid well enough for me to be able to live comfortably for the next 30, 40 years. I could have died there, could still go on holidays.

I could. You know, I had a lot of good flexibility, but it wasn't giving me what I wanted. Like, mentally, physically, emotionally. Like I wanted more. Mhm.

It depends on the type of person you are. I've always been a go getter. Ever since I was young. And for me it was like I wanted something more. I've never been financially driven.

And with that job there was a lot of repetitive work. So creatively I wasn't growing 100%. So that was that. But the number one thing was my mindset because I could have done it three years after working full time in video, but it took me six years. And the reason why it took me six years is I go back to saying it like I didn't have the balls.

So I have fear 100% fear. Like, I've got two kids, got my wife, we got a mortgage. It's so much easier to just work a full time job. And especially when you're very comfortable in it and you know the security is there. But the second you go full time into your own business, like, I don't know what's on that other side because you don't.

Because I've never done it before. I've always had it as a side hustle. And when you're very comfortable, it's very difficult to do that. But for me it was like the mindset aspect was like crazy. Like I was like always going.

I think the biggest thing was actually the people around me. So I'll tell you, the moment that I decided that I was going to do it. There's two moments, right? The first moment was I was having dinner on a round table with a group of my friends, and they're all entrepreneurs, and they were talking about how much their business was worth. Some of them were like, you know, in the millions and stuff like that.

And I felt very small on that table because I was like, I'm this guy that's working. That's the best place to be. Yeah, I'm like, I'm working full time and I don't have, like, a voice in this table. That's how I. Felt.

Yeah, right. That was my first sort of aha moment. And then the second aha moment was my colleague at the full time job I was with said to me, you will never leave this place. Oh yeah. And that.

Really. Hit me in the heart because I've been saying I'm going to leave, but not like, you know. I said, I'll leave one day. Not like a time frame. I'll leave one day.

And he's like, you'll never leave this place. And at my farewell speech, I said that exact same thing. I was like, oh, mate, you know, said that I'm never going to leave. Well, guess what? I'm leaving.

And the day I come back, I'll be in my AMG. As a. Joke. It's not going to be a joke. I will end up getting my AMG one day.

Um, there were the two aha moments. And then from that, those two moments, my mind just changed. It changed to a point where I was like, I have to leave now. And once my mind and my heart decided I was going to leave. There was no turning back.

And it got to a point where I was feeling anxious. So anxious that if I didn't tell my boss that I was going to leave, I couldn't eat. So for two weeks, because it happened, that actual moment when I decided I was going to leave. It happened like a couple of days before Christmas break. Mhm.

And then we all went on holidays and during that whole time I was like just super anxious. I was like, I need to tell him. Because you haven't, you. Haven't told him. You haven't told him yet.

But I was already checked out in my mind, in my heart. So then I was like, I got to tell this guy because my personality is like, if I feel anxious about something, it could be like a dispute I've had with someone or whatever. Like, I feel very I've got a lot of anxiety. Yeah. And I'm the type of person I want to resolve things as.

Soon as possible. Just, just before we go in. I think that's a hallmark of an entrepreneur, though. Just that feeling of needing to do action. And if you don't do that action, it eats at you.

Eat your heart. It that happens to me as well. Like I've got something I haven't done or something I need to get to. And as a, as an entrepreneur like you have so much stuff to do. So you set yourself like three goals to do for the day, and then you end up doing like all the other tasks, right?

And then if you don't finish those three goals that you set for yourself, that anxiety just keeps coming at you to the point. Like that can affect your your your mental state and affect your family and just can affect like your surrounding as well. Yeah. The number one thing effective for me was my appetite. And I'm, you know, I'm a big eater 100%.

So for me to not eat is like something's wrong, you know? So yeah, once I told, you know, my boss, I was like, yeah, that's it, it's done, done and dusted. So I'm seeing three things, right? Three things that I think, uh, people should take into consideration when you're thinking about, you know, I want to make that jump. I want to be the entrepreneur.

So face that fear, because fear is always going to be there to is be in a room with people bigger than you because, like, if you're not in that type of environment surrounded by people who are actually killing it in their game. And you're the smallest fish there. It's it's going to be hard to be like, okay, well, I'm just I'm comfortable here because you're surrounded with sharks. You want to be a shark, right? And then third, is that what was the thing you said about, you know, that that that one person saying that you would never.

Yeah. The the the the want or the ability to face, uh, someone saying no or someone that that disbelief at you. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it is. It's like I'm going to prove you wrong.

Yeah. That's it. I'm going to prove you wrong mentality. That's the one. And I think that one really got me across the line 100%.

Um, and like I said, like it was never a financial thing as much as like I was like, oh, I want to make more money. Eventually it was the fact that, like, I just wasn't growing it anymore. So I think a lot of probably full time corporate people will feel the same. It's like once you reach a limit. And I think a very important point is like, I was the only videographer at this place.

Yeah. So there's no one teaching me. Like, if for me to grow, it's like I need to self educate myself. Um, and that's just like it's not ideal. Whereas if you worked for, say, like a film company or something like that, and there's all these gurus and guns, like, you might not never stop learning.

And that's good because you're growing. Yeah. But for me, like, I'm filming the same thing. Um, I'm not growing. I'm not learning.

And that was that. That was a key element to it. And then eventually, like, yeah, just having something that I could call for myself. There's a, there's a quote that I like to say, I've been saying this to everyone who's who, who's thinking about becoming a business owner or is a business owner. And the quote is by James Clear and says, entrepreneurship is a self-development exercise masquerading as a capitalist venture.

Right. No idea what that means. It means that, uh, to grow is synonymous, to become becoming the next version of the business that you want to be. Right. So at every step of the journey that you you are growing yourself.

Your business is going to grow with you. And if your mental state is shit. If you have a bad Break-Up, if you're going through divorce, that mental state is going to affect the way that you actually are going to work within your business. So finding that peace, that calm, that spirituality even will help you grow your business. And for me, that's what I've seen happen along the way.

Right. So that's why I'm constantly working on myself. I have business coaches. I have therapists that help me navigate my mind, which is like a very, very messy. A lot of the times.

Right? Yeah. I think that goes to my next point about, I don't know if you call it Law of Attraction, but I have like a very respected I don't want to call him a mentor but respected friend called Brian. He does, um, you know, breath work and really just helps me motivate myself through things that I've gone through in my life. And he said something really important to me that changed my whole trajectory of running this business.

So the first year After I left my full time job, I was like, I just need to make the same amount of money I made at my full time job. That's what I said to him. I was like, as long as I can make the exact same amount. It's a win. It's like I've done well.

And then he. Will. And then this is what he said to me. He goes, you can't think like that. And I was like, why?

He goes, you're going to be working at least ten times harder to make that same amount of money. That means you need to be making ten times more. He put it through in a much better sort of scenario. Can you say that again? Can you say.

That? Yeah. So if you. So I want to make let's just say I earned $100,000. I had a full time job.

Right? Yeah. So I'm saying if I can make $100,000 in my first year of running my own business, it's a success for me. But that $100,000 that you're going to make is going to be a lot harder than $100,000 working at the full time job by like at least ten times easier, right? And it's going to buy by you less than what you can get at a full time job, too.

It's going to you're going to be working way harder. Less time with the family. No flexibility, no holidays, no sick leave insurances, all the overheads, no super. All of those things. Right.

So then I was like, oh wow. That's a really interesting way to look at it. And then he gave me a couple of YouTube videos to listen to some audio recordings of, you know, the way you should be thinking about life. And I took it very seriously, especially at that time because I was going into business. And then I was like, all right, I got to change the way I think of this.

And the minute I started doing that, it just changed everything. It just changed everything. And I started to attract more people that wanted to do business. And yeah, it's done really well for me. So thank you.

Brian, there's a weird thing with, uh, with business, uh, like, even it doesn't matter which business you do, but that's a weird thing. But as you grow, as you make more money, as you like, as your team grows, you become, it becomes more of a woo woo situation. And I find that very, very strange. But it works, right? So you mentioned the Law of Attraction.

That's one of the things where people are like, oh, you know just what? We're just manifesting. What is that? What does that even mean? Right?

But it works like the bigger you get, the more into that whole spirituality that you want to get in, and you want to sort of grow that mindset and you want to grow that leadership skill kind of thing. So yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, just for like other people getting into business, like I have a lot of like because I do a lot of stuff with like younger people. And I've had a lot of young people hit me up and, you know, they wanted to go in full time. And I just sometimes I think like, there's a time for it.

You know, like a lot of young guys want to get into it straight away, but and then they want to niche out. And, you know, there's probably a lot of like you would agree there's many different ways to get into it. But I think the most important thing is time. Yeah. Like you can't just like you see people doing it, so you want to do it, but like.

What do you mean by time? Time is like everything has a time, you know, like you can't just do like time works itself out. Like I always say, I wish I had kids when I was a bit younger, but it wasn't the right time. Even with like business for me, it's like if I like, for example, if I knew that business was going to be this good for me, why didn't I do it five years sooner? Because it wasn't the right time.

Because everything is about timing. Mhm. Yeah. But at the same time there's never there's never the perfect time as well. There is never.

The perfect mistake that taking that leap of faith and facing the fear and you know, proving everybody wrong, it's, it's about making your own time, making your own pathway to get to where you want to be. Right. So yeah. And there's a flip side to that I think about and I've been thinking about it very often lately. Is patience right.

As a business owner like a new one especially you want to you want to get to your goals as fast as you can, like jumping in the deep end and figuring it out. But the thing is, I'm at that point now that, you know, I've got a daughter now, I've got a family, I've got mortgage like you, and I just don't have that capacity to want to jump in and deepen as much as I used to want to, but at the same time, I'm also at the in a position now where we can sort of take a step back and really analyse where we want to go and be very clear on which goal we want to reach. Instead of jumping in the deep end and figuring out and figure and getting to a goal that you're like, okay, well, cool, I'll go here. What next? Yeah, yeah.

But since the guy that's got like ten employees rate. It comes with his own headaches. But you know, that's a that's another thing that, uh, I want to touch on is like company culture or just culture or values. Right. And we started figuring something out within myself is, yes, I have ten employees, but how do I look at my people is more like, you know, how can I take care of them?

How can they grow in this business with me? Right. Uh, there's too many people thinking out there, especially for those who haven't really hired before they think of. What can that person do for me? Right?

How can they get into my workplace and follow my system and do the things that I want to do? You know what I mean? Yeah. So for for a team to grow, to have that value and the value is to really think of the mindset of, okay, can I take care of these people along with me? Can I win with can I, can they win with me and can I win with them too?

What can they bring to you to the workplace that can, you know, grow the grow the, the, the company? Yeah, I think like, you know, recently hired Johnny full time. Yeah. And he comes with no experience, like in a professional setting. But that wasn't what I was looking for.

I mean, of course. Great. If he had it, that's even a plus. But the number one thing was like this game, you could do it on your own, but it's going to be very lonely. Yeah.

So. And it was like, you want to someone they can just roll with, have a good time and be able to get the job done. And he's learning super quickly. And I think, you know, one thing for me is like, I didn't have a constant mentor to like, help me in my video journey, but I had a lot of people influence me and teach me a lot of things along the way. But now I can be that for Jonny.

Um, and of course, like, I don't know everything, but I know enough to be able to get into the next level. So yeah, it's been good, man. Like, it's been amazing. And obviously, you know, my wife Yumi is like plays a big part in, in everything and keeping me grounded and being helping the business. And now we've got an editor as well.

So yeah, it's slow and steady, but yeah, I don't know, like, I don't think I want to ever grow to like as big as you in terms of like, numbers. But, you know, just. Talk to me in five years. Oh. Look, it's.

Yeah, I mean. Yeah, because. That changes all the. Time. The, the reason why I say five years is because, like, you know, when I, when I first met you, I was a very young videographer.

I didn't really know the ropes and whatnot. And it took me five years to, to get to this point. And I don't think it's ever going to stop growing, because eventually, and this is going to happen to Zoku as well. For anyone who's thinking about growing a business. It takes a life of itself, right?

So and then, yes, you might be one of the cogs in the business, but it will grow to the point where, okay, well, it wants to head a certain way. It wants to, uh, you know, grow in terms of revenue, in terms of culture, in terms of there's many ways that the company can grow, but there will be that critical point that you no longer matter as it was as much as you used to do. You know what I mean? Yeah. That you're right.

Like, you know, I just I'm a very easygoing kind of guy, especially when it comes to, like, I just have that mindset of, like, riding the wave, you know? Yeah, just ride the wave wherever it takes me. It takes me, you know? So cool. Hey, let's talk about some of your successes, man.

Like, the one thing I admire about you is your ability to tease out stories and people. So if you if you if anyone wants to have a look, if you guys check out his TikTok. His YouTube. Zuko. Creative.

You see some of the some of the biggest videos that you've ever done. Some of them have like hundreds and thousands of views. Right? And it's because when you when you watch them, there's a air of storytelling in each and every single one of these videos. Can you tell me a bit more about your flavour of storytelling?

Yeah, it really came out organically. Like I didn't have this master plan. I didn't put together a strategy. I just like kind of just went with the flow again, riding the wave. You know, the opportunity came up to just do a good interview on my mate story.

And then one thing led to the next before I found out that I was just doing interviews, you know? But what really intrigued me is just like, I've always been a guy that's likes hardship stories like, you know, stories of adversity. I've just always liked that sort of style. Can you give us a bit of, uh, of of a context of, like, what kind of stories are you telling on you. Yeah.

So it really started off as like someone coming out of prison but wanting to change their lives. And that's how it started. And I was like, that's such a good story that needs to be told. And this is before, like every Tom, Dick and Harry was talking about stories of their time in prison. There's nothing wrong with it, especially when it's for a positive cause.

But we started doing it when it wasn't really like the main thing, and I did it because my mate had just come out of prison and he was trying to change his life around, and I was like, that's such a good story and it needs to be told. So I said, hey, let me do a YouTube story on it. And the catch is, I'll do you the video for free by the YouTube. A joke one from confide. Yeah.

Tell me, tell us his story. And what how how, uh, video storytelling actually helped him throughout his. Yeah. So he's had a crazy life. Um, but to cut it really short, he did about ten years in prison.

He came out, he was doing these boot camps in Lidcombe. I was living in Homebush at the time he had come out of prison. We grew up together and I was like, bro, I'm going to come to one of these bootcamps. He's like, come down, come down. So I came down, did a session with him and he's like, bro, I've been like, you know, just doing these boot camps to get going and living in this house, it's winter.

I'm having cold showers because hot water doesn't come out. And then this is my goal is to like just have these like X inmates running these boot camps. And I was like, oh man. Like that's crazy. You know, I really hope you do good.

And then I was thinking about I was like, I've always want to do a YouTube channel. I just don't know what to do. And then I was like, you know what, maybe I just do a story about you because it's like, it's a pretty cool story. Like especially spending that much time in prison coming out during boot camp. I mean, there is something about there's something about people coming out of prison and that stigma of you being in prison.

No one really talks about it. So that's why. They all talk about it now. Oh yeah. Well, that's because, you know, stories like this have been told.

It's more comfortable, it's more accepted. Everyone's talking about. But back then for me, when I first met you, you, you started doing these stories with As prisoners. I had no. I had no interaction with the prisoners like X inmates.

And then seeing these guys, talking to them and realising that, hey, these are just people too. They just they just happen to have sort of the I won't say I don't want to say the wrong way about it, but a certain way to to live. And this is why they are the way they are. It doesn't mean that they they did something out of malice. And that's, uh, well, at least the guys that actually have the good stories that you've been telling, these guys don't have any manners.

They just. That's the way they were living, right? Yeah. And I think the most important point from Joe was he wanted to change the social perception on X inmates. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, let me help you do that. Um, because, you know, everyone deserves a second chance. Like, we've all made millions of mistakes. Some of them maybe. You know, a lot of people make mistakes where they just didn't get caught.

Make a lot of people should probably be in jail for a lot of stuff they've done. But for some people, they just got caught. Yeah, there's a million people out there that's doing bad things, but they're not in jail. That's all the difference is, right? So what, uh, you told this story.

You did. That was your first video. First ever YouTube video. Got 100,000 views in like a few months, which is, like almost unheard of on YouTube 5 or 6 years ago. And not that we did it for the views, but it went almost like kind of viral in a sense.

And Joe just got crazy opportunity out of it. And I was like, bro, that's amazing. You know, like speaking gigs. Uh uh, yeah. Like people, it got a lot of attention because they're like, who is this guy?

But the most important moral of the story is that he was trying to do something positive. And people saw that because it's like it's authentic. It was genuine. He's not trying to hide things. He said what he did and then he was talking about the action he's doing.

And that's what really resonated with the audience. And again, there wasn't many people willing to do this. I love that. I mean, look, even I've just watched one of your videos before you came in and it was about Andrew Hamilton. Like, he has a crazy story.

I just thought he was. I thought he was just a comedian, but he's got a, like, a huge backstory as well. That's another funny one, bro. Let me let me say it. So Jay was like, oh, you got to do a story.

And Andrew and I was like, oh yeah, you reckon it'll do all right? And he's like, yeah. I was like, oh. I mean, it's it is the right feel like he's done time before. And I was kind of contemplating it.

I was like, yeah, let's do it. And then I had Andrew come in and found out that we had all these mutual friends as well. We grew up in a similar area. That's nuts. And then that was that's the that is the most watched video on the YouTube channel.

And of course, that's because of his fame. He's, you know, had on all these channels on YouTube as well. So man, I love this, I love this. I've always wanted to pick your brain about like how you, you go through solid storytelling and whatnot. But summarise for me, what can people learn from this as business owners, as people wanting to create content for their own personal brand, their own authenticity?

Like, what can people learn out of this and how can they get into it? It's a great question. I think for me, It's. I just ask the questions that I want to ask. Um, I want to ask sensitive questions.

So I feel like, you know, when I, I also interview people I want to interview, so that's very important. Uh, but that might not always be the case, especially if you're working corporate and, you know, you're working for all types of people. But what's helped me a lot is asking questions by structuring it in a way like you want it to be like a story. You know, you want it to have the foundations, the intros, the adversities that the future, that the big turnaround have, that really nice structure. But each element of the story or the questions you're asking needs to have some sort of educational value to the person watching.

So there's no real formula for it. And I think, you know, I've had a lot of interviews where I've struggled as well in, in the responses that I've got. Right there. Is that so you've got three types of people. In my opinion, when you interview someone, if you've got one, which is the most ideal person is that they know how to talk, which is great.

A lot of people who's done time in prison know how to. Cook. Because they're not shy, and it's no filter. So actually a lot of like X inmates are great candidates for no way. Yeah.

Because they've been in environments that's like the most toughest environments. So you put them behind the camera. They're not worried about that. You know what I mean? Like they're just what's that to them a camera.

Yeah. They've been going through the hardest thing. They've been in a jungle full of gorillas, mate. Yeah. Um, and then the other, the second one is people that are very, very short answers, which is a very tricky one, because you've got to be quick with it.

Yeah. You got to come up with a question to follow up. Yeah. And then the third one is they don't stop talking and you don't know when to interrupt them to go, hey. So, you know, I've put in things in place now that you've learnt is making sure you tell them what the expectation is before you do the interview.

Because if you don't, you're going to get your short answers. You're going to get extremely long answers. So you want a good combination of both. And you might even be like, hey, just so you know, if the answer is a bit long, I'm going to have to interrupt you. Don't take it in the wrong way.

This is for the best outcome. You need to have Vanguard at Vanguard. And these are very good practices for when you're in the professional setting. I love corporates right. So that's what I do because if you set the expectation early, there's nothing to worry about afterwards.

You don't want to upset like someone that's just done ten years in prison. You know go, hey mate, stop talking when they're like saying something you mention, but also like. It's like, who are you? This. This has never been in.

The age of, like, just. Like. But you got to pick the moments too. You know, you've got to pick the right moments to interrupt someone. So do you apply some of these interviewing techniques for your clients now?

Like 100%, 100% I think like especially in the corporate space, because I've only worked in the corporate space. Like, I know how to work with corporates And to be honest, it's the same way I work with anyone. I don't really change. I'll work with a CEO the same way I work with Z mate. Yeah, the respect, the way I speak, it doesn't change.

Maybe the way I speak might change a bit more casual, but it's the same. No, I think the cool thing is because I've been studying communication, I've been training in communication for the last two years and having that understanding of how people are just, you know, the person, the three personalities that you're seeing. I'm still sort of seeing the same thing with my corporate clients, where there are some that they just don't don't want to stop talking. And it's like they finally have the opportunity to say their piece. So they're just going to say it and that's okay.

Those people are great because you can tease a great story out there. And there's those who are very, very self-confidence. They have never been in front of a camera. They've never been asked an opinion. They've just been, you know, uh, in the weeds doing their work, not worry about anybody else.

And no one's really asked them about how to how to talk about anything. Right. So those those are the times and the short answer guys too. And those guys are you usually have to prompt them, hey, can you say this for me in that particular way? Because I think there's a great story here, but you're not really giving it to me, right?

I mean, my, um, probably shouldn't give this one away, but the number one tip is like, line reads. So like if you have like a corporate client and you don't get the right answer, like just having a couple of lines prepared. Oh, 100%. To say that's always like, you're always gonna get something good that's usable. He's a he's a very hot topic that I've seen people like to argue about.

Are you a teleprompter kind of guy or not a teleprompter? I did see that. Um, mate, I always have one on standby because, you know, if they want to use it, like, why not? It really depends on, like, the job. Really.

Right. Like some things need to have a teleprompter. Yeah. You know, like some things just need it. Um, some people just aren't comfortable on camera.

How many times have you done a video where they can't do something or they can't execute it? And you've got 50 recordings from the one video, and then you've spent one hour just trying to get one recording. Like, I mean, people are definitely more forgiving than you think they are when they are watching a video. Right. So I've met some people where they're like, nah, I don't want to use teleprompter.

It sounds too really like it's too robotic. It's not authentic. But mate, the person is not going to be authentic anyways because they are very nervous right now and they've never gotten they're not going to be confident just answering questions off the cuff. Yes, it depends on the client. Yeah yeah.

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with it. Like the best of the best use teleprompters, you know. And and if you can help guide them through the teleprompter, you can still get a very good product. Okay, so we've learned in this episode, we've actually learned, you know, how to be an entrepreneur, how to get into the game.

Right. To face your fears. To prove people wrong, to be in the room with with sharks. We've learned about your story, about you know, how to tell a great story for videos, right? And you've provided some great tips.

Uh, is there anything that you'd like to, to, to ask me? Are you curious about anything that we've been doing here at AMM as well? Uh, you've been in the game for, say, 5 or 6 years now by yourself. Yeah. And obviously I've just gone through my first year.

What would be your best advice and your best learnings from the five years you've been running your business to help you get through to the next level sooner? In terms of growing the business. Yeah, the answer to that is mentors, right? There is not one time in my five year journey of growing this business. Did I not have someone beside me?

Whether it's you I met David Miller, my friend Chloe Vaughn. You guys taught me different types of videography. And where where, where I didn't want to be. Right? So I didn't want to be in the wedding space.

I didn't want to be in the real estate space. And I found that, you know, because of my business background, where I found most success is in the marketing side of things. So learning strategy and the whole idea of having someone next to you hasn't stopped. I started, you know, paying for for business coaches. I've learned under Xinjiang, I've learned a method sell.

I learned learn under my current coach and solos. Right. So all these guys helped me grow as, like, fast. Even my therapist actually helped me figure out a whole ton of trauma that was blocking me from growing my my business and myself. Right.

So we talked about we talked about how, you know, if you don't fix yourself, if you're not in a good mind state, your business is not going to grow because it depends on you as a person to to grow along with it. Right? So one of my biggest, biggest tips is start finding that person that is going to help you. And by that I mean going out there ask questions. I mean with you, right?

We haven't spoken for ten years, and I just happened to see your video online. And I just hit up the question was like, hey, I see you doing this. I'm I'm getting into the game too. Is any tips that you can give me. So let me ask you.

So obviously mentors is very of a macro sense, but what's something that a mentor has told you that's really stuck you through to take you to the next level. Confidence is a feeling you can't control. A feeling what you can't control is the framework you operate under and the experience that you have. So gain more experience by doing by taking action. Right.

And then the framework is a strategy that you learn along the way, that you can implement with those strategies and with those experiences. And with that, you can mitigate the whole confidence confidence issue because because you know your stuff, confidence will come with it, with it. I actually met someone that was going to buy gear off like just on marketplace. I was looking at some lenses. I went to go see him, and then this guy was running an agency for about ten years, and just from that 5 to 10 minute conversation I had with him, he was dropping knowledge like crazy knowledge, and I was like, wow, this is like it opens up your eyes, you know, when you because every videographer or agencies have a different model, different structure, different niches.

There's no one way about it. You know, like, there's so many different ways. And until even myself, when I started to speak to different clients and, you know, get on different retainers or different prices for different videos, you don't really know what you're capable of. Yeah. And for me, I'm like at a stage where I'm like, yeah, I can get more work, but at the same time, like it's it's comfortable.

Like, how ready am I to sort of take it to the next level? But even if you're ready to take it next level, it just doesn't happen like that. No, you got to go look for it. You got to go change. You need to set the intention.

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's, um. Yeah, for now, like, I'm pretty comfortable around. But I see the, I see the value in, like, a mentor, and I think I see a value in, like, someone that's run an agency the way I would want to run it. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, knowledge is not something that you, you act on straight away. Like the the things that you learn might take 5 or 6 months, a year or two years even before it actually clicks, right? So that's what I'm saying. Like when I say find mentors, have a chat with people.

Like show them your problem because people are more likely to help you. Sorry. Let me rephrase that. People are more willing to help you than you think they would. Right.

So if you have a problem, if you show them that problem, they will help you. Yeah, right. And by the way, when I say mentors, I'm also saying that there are other people around you as well that could teach you something different that you had never thought of. When Jerome came into our into our organisation, he instantly improved the quality of the videos. And me being a young videographer at the time was like, what you can light.

You know, you can actually have better sound. Uh, and it's cool because, you know, if you act as a student wherever you go. Right. It didn't. Despite your position in the company, you will learn something that will actually improve yourself and hence your company as well.

Yeah. We love Jerome. Yeah. We love you, Jerome. Yeah.

both of us do. But you're mine. You're an Alexis. Term. Uh, yeah, man.

100%, I think. Like, you know, in a scheme of things. But, like, just the people you have the relationships. Like, I always keep saying how important relationships are. And I wouldn't be where I am today, especially with the business without the relationships I made.

Especially like, I think if anyone's wanting to go off on their own, then go off on your own if you don't have good relationships. So yeah, say that again, man. Like I'm gonna replay that. Hey, uh, there is one thing I want to admit on air in front of the camera, because I think this is a deep thing that I've been working on. What do.

You think? Huh? Are we going to kiss? Yes. There we go.

Yes. We definitely have to get back to this. But there was a hard thing, man. Like, uh, there was one one point where, you know, I felt. I felt kind of challenged by you, right?

And that was a shit thing that I used to like. The thing that I felt because you came out of Blacktown. I was getting a lot of job from you because of Blacktown. And when you jumped ship, you took all of that away from me. I'm like, oh wow, that's a lot of my income gone, right?

And it was a hard thing because I was thinking, that's my friend. He needs it. I don't need I can't think like that. Right. That's a way to think about it.

Because if you think like this, that's just going to reflect badly on you and reflect badly on, on, on on the company. So I haven't I haven't actually admitted this to you, but I've been working with my therapist about this. Oh wow. So I just want to say, bro, I love you and you need you do whatever you need to do to be able to survive in your business. Right?

So, uh, and this is basically me saying, like, hey, I'm sorry that I thought like this. Oh, I didn't know. So. Yeah. Yeah.

No, thank you for your honesty. Yeah. But yeah. No, it's it's, uh. That's one thing I've been wanting to say to you, bro.

Yeah. All good bro. Yeah. I mean, at this, I think at the end of the day, like, there is a lot of work out there. There is enough food for everyone to eat 100%.

That's that's that's just not in videography. You know, like, I was actually doing a job for a painter and he's like, mate, I'm chocolate. I'm non-stop. Mate, how many painters are there in Sydney or just in Australia? In the world?

Even videographers. There's a million videographers. There's a million clients. Like, there's so much to eat. And that's.

And that's the thing. Like I think the in the videography game, one of the things I saw as I was growing up in the field is that there's a lot of collaboration, a lot more collaboration than you think. Like people just throwing work each other's way. I mean, I just through, uh, the Melbourne, like, you know, the F1 job that we did last year, this year just gave it to, to one of the videographers down in Melbourne because we couldn't do it right. So.

Well we. Could have. Well. Did I eat too much? Well I asked you where we went.

But the point is, point is like just we're here to look out for each other and like, you can't. You cannot have that ill feeling or that bad feeling towards anybody in a game, because that's just going to ruin the way that you run your own business. Yeah. Yeah. I think like emotionally, how you feel really will navigate your whole life, not just in business, like family, friendship, like it's I say it like, you know, I've got everything on the couch, I don't.

No one does. I don't think I, I don't think any entrepreneurs have anything under control, any at any point in time. But, you know, it's very important to just be grounded, you know? Yeah. Just, um, like, just be feeling blessed.

Like, look at yourself, bro. Like, you know, even if you had that negative mindset about that client, like, you gotta always see the grass is greener on the other side. Like, you've been able to get yourself to a point where, you know, you've been able to hire a lot of people. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, it's like It's it's not a competition, but it's everyone's just out there to just eat. Really?

You know what I mean? And there's, there's just so much work out there, like, you just you can get whatever you want. You know, but I think, like, you know, this this changes the topic a bit. But when I came into doing this full time, my biggest thing was I don't want to be like anyone else. When I say that, it was like, how can I differentiate what we're doing with like, say for example, you or with another video agency and I know, like another agency like vid zero which, which you know, like you, you video zero.

And you guys really helped me get through my first year because I knew you guys, you guys were giving me work and helping me set up my business in the background. Mhm. And V0 really focuses on the charity side. And I was like I like that. And then that's where you know we started working in the prisons with the kids and stuff.

And I was like that's where I knew like that was That was our point of difference. That's your flavour. That's your flavour? Yeah. And it didn't just happen like it's been happening before.

I was even doing video, like, as soon as I did that job with Joe for the video and we were in, Joe started working in the prisons like, he's like, boy, I need you to come in and film it. So we were doing that for like years, um, before we started going in and doing workshops in there as well. And, and people, people a lot of people don't know, like, you know, I worked as a tennis coach, swimming coach for kids. And then I worked in social work for three years during uni. And then now I'm working in Cobham.

So like my experience with working with kids dates back, you know, two decades. And I love working with kids because, you know, we've all had troubles in our life. And I wish I found video sooner because if I had found video sooner, mate, I would be a gun. Like, I'd be so much better than I am now. But again, the timing wasn't right.

But the reason why it worked so well for me now is not just because I can do video, but it's because of all the lessons I've learned outside of video that makes me the person I am today. To be able to run a business like I can't. I don't just do video. I have 12 years of digital marketing background as well. I've graphic design background and on top of that, I've done probably 15 different types of jobs, from mopping the floors, you know, working in the warehouses to squeezing spinach at the Italian fruit shop.

Loving on air. You know, I won't forget these days $15 an hour, you know, working at KFC, I've done every job you can think of. And I always tell these kids, it goes, you never say no to an opportunity, because all these opportunities will one day lead you to finding what you want to do. And how do you know what you want to do if you don't do so many different things? You know, and I'm very blessed to have found video, and now it's my mission to make video something suitable for like the younger kids rather than, you know, doing crime.

A lot of these kids like they think once they leave, like juvie, they just, yeah, go and lay bricks or they become a referral or a Tyler. And that's fine, too. But a lot of physical strain that you're going to put yourself through. And I go, just hold a camera. To your point, man.

To your point about like sharing the the art of video or the rather the career videos to some of these young kids. So I did a talk at 17 at high school, and they invited me to share what I do and like how much I make. And some of these kids. Right. And they were like, so you do videos, how much is that camera?

Oh, 15,000. They're like, oh, wow. And the question that I get asked is like, how much do you make? And then I tell them like, oh, in one day you can get anywhere from 500 to 30,000 like that much. And the light in their eyes when they find something that's possible, rather they see a template that they can achieve.

That's a to me, that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Because you when you impart knowledge on, on on kids that you see them sort of shift in a way of doing things to get to the, to the, to their goals. Right. So it's a cool thing to see. Well, and that's like a huge part in, um, doing the introductory to videography, especially in the prison scene, because these kids, most of them are very money driven by just the illegal way.

So the minute you talk about like how much you can make from a video and just holding a camera, obviously, you know, when we say just holding a camera, there's a lot more to it than just hold your camera 100%. But, you know, to put it fluffy to to fluff them up. You know, a camera can make you a lot of money to put it fluffy. Sorry to fluff them up, fluffy, you know, like to fluff them up. You know, just holding a camera can make you a lot of good money.

Yeah. And, uh, it's it's the and and and on top of that, it's not just about the camera, it's about the creative sector. Mhm. Like being part of the video industry. There's so many different, you know sectors you can go into with Nvidia.

You don't need to be extroverted. There's a lot of introverted jobs out there. Like you could be editing or it can be, um. Introverted, like Jerome back in the day, holding his light pole. He's changed.

Jerome. He's, uh, he's a he's a CEO material, right? Yeah. Well, he went from introvert. Extrovert.

Um, but, yeah, like, you can change. You can develop yourself, and you can, you can dabble in different things. Yeah. And that's what I love about it is you don't have to just hold a camera. There's so many different elements of it that you can, I agree, grow you know.

So so I've actually taken a step back from using cameras and I've gone more into the strategy and communication. So teaching people how to how to be in front of a camera, what videos to to make, what content would be good for them. So I totally agree with you. As someone who's been in the game for two years now, what would you say to your past self? Some that person who was fearful, who didn't, who was saying, oh, I'll get to to to my own business one day?

What would you say to him? I think the number one thing is like, I underestimated myself and what I'm actually capable of, and I shouldn't have because, you know, I'm not trying to fluff myself up. I know you like that word. I'm not trying to fluff myself up. But if I'm not gonna fluff myself up, who else is going to fluff yourself up?

Right. So I think the number one thing is, everything I've ever done in my life, I've always gone hard. Doesn't matter what. And I might have not got, you know, first place in everything. But I always went hard.

So I think the number one thing is like, if you don't believe in yourself, no one is going to believe in yourself for you. And once I actually took the step and I was like, Holy shit, I can actually do this, and I can actually do it pretty good. So I think it's really just believing in yourself. And if you don't believe in yourself, no one's going to believe in you. So just take the plunge.

And once you take the plunge, you don't look back. But you got to take the plunge at the right time. And I know you said there's no right timing, but it's putting in the framework. You know, having the right people around you, people you can trust, people you can rely on. If things were to go down because I always said, you know, put it this way, bro.

Like that first week of going into my I just finished I just finished my, uh, full time job. I was about to start. I look at my calendar. I got nothing in there. Right.

Well, there's nothing in my calendar. There's no emails coming through. And I was like, fuck, what am I going to do? Like, seriously? Like, because when I worked full time and people were hitting me up for jobs, that was all reactive.

But when you go into your own business, you got to be proactive. And the number one thing is before you can sell the service, before you actually go off and do video, which is what you can do, you need to know how to sell the video first. And I was like, shit, I never had to sell. Yeah, I never had to sell the video because it was all just coming to me. Hey, can you do this?

Sure. I could do this video for you. But now I was like, I had to do it myself. So yeah, that was like a big thing. And I was like, you know what?

To to the missus. I was like, worst case scenario, I'll just drive Uber. I have like I can because there's so many opportunities now that. I've actually done that. Yeah, you can do Uber.

I live near the Amazon distribution centre. I can go and drop some delivery. There was I remember like for me as well like when early on like 2 or 3 years ago I was still driving Uber while still working at that individual's. Yeah, yeah. But you know, thank God I didn't have to, but I was willing to do it.

I was willing to make those sacrifices and I and then I look back at my life and I go, I've always been willing to make sacrifices. My whole life I've been doing that. So it's just like all of the stuff that I was fearful of. I've been doing it my whole life. It was just a matter of like taking that next step.

And now that I've taken it, I was like, man, I'll never look back anymore, you know? So my brother Tak, thank you for coming on, bro. Thanks for having me, bro. Powerful talk. Let's see if this one goes live.